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New section here Cloning Lying & video!!!

I studied chronologically, the various versions of the ClonaidWeb site . Those studies results are interesting in many ways. Indeed, it is possible to show the permanence of Mrs Boisselier's implication on the Clonaid project since its origin. she was presented by "Clonaid " as the scientific director - ie the scientific guarantee -.We read on a 1997 version of the site :

CLONAID®s Scientific Director, the French scientist Dr. BRIGITTE BOISSELIER-Ph.D., sees no ethical problems with the procedure. "Parents have the right to decide to have a baby who will bear the genetic code of one of them. It's now common to see the dead parent father a baby through the process of frozen sperm implantation. Imagine the joy of a widow raising a child looking like her beloved deceased husband" she said.

CLONAID®will also offer a service called "INSURACLONE®" which, for a $50,000 fee, will provide the sampling and safe storage of cells from a living child or from a beloved person in order to create a clone if the child dies of an incurable disease or through an accident. In the case of a genetic disease, the cells will be preserved until science can genetically repair it before recreating the child (or an adult).

CLONAID®, the first company in the world to offer human cloning, expects to have over a million customers worldwide interested in its services as well as many laboratories to seek partnership with in this venture.

For this reason she has to provide the guarantee on a scientific level that the cloning project as well as the Clonaid product did not constitute a purely chimerical object by providing sufficient information about its feasibility. It should be noted that throughout its history Clonaid never gave any information or scientific critical's evaluations - however abundant on the subject (see research work of the various scientific teams about animal cloning) - as for the success rate of such a project. From this fact we can perfectly conclude that Mrs Boisselier has hidden some information or data to sustain an illusion about the clonaid project and its products as perfectly viable.

Another interesting point since it's beginning Clonaid - alias Valiant Venture sold a service - and and if we check back the chronology , the disclamer - the disclaimer (according to Clonaid ™ and Clonaid ^MC) will not charge any of his customers before the birth of the clone and this did not happen until we discovered that the ties between the sponsor and investor Mark Hunt who supported clonaid at its beginning, and Brigitte Boisselier were just about to be severed. (Mark Hunt realized at the time that mrs Boisselier was spending more time intervening on the media network - for the benefit of the raelian movement - than working in the Clonaid ^MC lab). Finally Mark Hunt canceled the contract which bound them so then the following text announcing the dissolution of clonaid Valiant Venture is from May 7, 2001.

07-05-2001

If we take a look on the web design we can pointing out the time when Hunt Mark appeared - as an operational investor - because it is indicated indirectly on one of the Web pages.

CLONAID®'s Scientific Director, the French scientist Dr. BRIGITTE BOISSELIER-Ph.D., see no ethical problems with the procedure. "Who, today, would be scandalized to the idea of bringing back to life a 10-month old child who died accidentally? The technology allows it, the parents desire it, and I don’t see any ethical problems…." She said 09/11/2000

The Hunt baby deceased accidentally from complications related to a surgical operation at10 months. This mention disappeared elsewhere as quickly as it appeared in the following versions of the web site. So it is only when the raelian found the Hunt couple that the web page started having a truly professional design - multilingual versions etc. - before the "thing" was of a dismaying amateurism. The movement then really invested time (therefore money) for cloning promotion in a serious way only when it laid out an investor Mr. Hunt. So we can deduce that the references - former or posterior one's - after the defection of M.H. to financial investors or partners were more than virtual (according our information in January 2001). The revival of the project and the media cloning hoax (2002 - 2003) must then matched on arrival of new "investors". Another completely significant element from my point of view: The Raël's book "yes with the Human Cloning revealed that Valiant Venture was pure hoax elaborates as advertising pattern:

I bought for some dollars, near an American company of San Francisco specialized in the sale of preestablished companies or companies "from the shelf", an offshore oil rig company (letter-box) in the already called Bahamas "Valiant Venture" so that the project is taken with the sérieux.[...] Clonaid.com functioned as envisaged. Initially, for an expenditure of less than 3 000 $ US we obtained a world media cover evaluated with more than 15 million dollars... I still laugh at it...

A "trickery" which is supposed to have been dissolved under the "pressure" of French television. Information or deception ? I had a confirmation from M6 , and from France 2 as well via a member of the team who had worked on the TV show dedicated to Raël called "Envoyé special", that this claim was no more than a pure fairy tale. This work (oui au clonage humain) has a copyright registration gone back to February 2001, the forewords whose drafting supposes that the book is completed before they could be wrote are in date for ones of them to the 03/12/2000 consequently we have logically the right to conclude that the book was achieved on this date. So we know that Valiant Venture was then conceived like an instrument of propaganda without real contents. How propaganda without another substance that of a media intoxication can propose to the sale a service of human being Cloning or pet or even cells conservation etc? How can they claim to continue to selling those products - which had never existed - while knowing that the company holder of the marks was over ? How finally the perfectly chimerical claim of Valiant Venture could become more real after its cloning in Clonaid ™ ? According the newspaper Le Figaro 13/01/2003, Clonaid only exist just four month before it have been disbanded in 1997. However the real reasons for it's dissolution, it have been never registred again and it have nothing to do with a so called pressure from french tv network. By the way this annouce was avaiable over the internet since 1997, the junior scientific newpaper "Science et vie Junior" quoted it in his september issue. So for almost six years the main press agency Reuter AP AFP ... published again and again the press relaese of a a ghost society.

More research on Internet are interesting.

The book was not publicly diffused before April 2001 and to be more accurate the 15 of April of the same year. Before this date it was the object was restricted to an internal diffusion for the benefit of the raelian movement members . Indeed and obviously it would have bea mess , if at the same time Raël on March 28, 2001 in front of the US congress, that anybody could realized that the founder of Clonaid® i.e Valiant Venture speaking in a name of an empty shell . The date of diffusion of the book "Yes to the Human Cloning" thus was voluntarily delayed so that nobody can discovering - at this time - the deception before Raël speak to US Congress.

Let us notice that a whole series of events like press conferences (presentation of the surrogate mothers) were organized while at the same time Valiant Venture did not have any more any legal existence. But, and it is important to stress it, the raelians and Clonaid has refers to the dissolution of Valiant Venture on their Web only in May 2001 (see infra). So from December 2000 to May 2001 the movement voluntarily dissimulated on its Web site the "end" of Valiant Venture everyone is not indeed supposed to have read: Yes to Human Cloning (contrary to it's two preface writer Mrs Brigitte Boisselier and Mr M. Wenner). Wa can also ask a question about the true motive behind dissimulation. More particulary about the tale of the dissolution of Valiant Venture - under the pressure of French television - was presented in a truncated way on the site of Clonaid . By the way Clonaid web always forget to report the fact that the company in question was an empty shell - according his founder claim - an advertizing tool for the raelian movement -. And it is still true today ! Remain an hypothesis which has nothing to do with french television. As long as Valiant Venture have existed as an entity, Marc Hunt could turned against the original founder (the legal structure) . Indeed as a founder, the legal responsibility - on criminal and civil law - of Raël itself, could be committed, consequently he have a genuine interest to appear as no more playing a role in this operation. But because Raël just managed a ghost company since 1997, there was no way to involved him in case of trouble. And when the first real investor appeared, Raël avoid any kind of legal contact with the ghosted cloning entity and put Boisselier in charge of it.

The Mark Hunt case & the Nitro Lab

Clonaid Web page 2 august 2001 :

Here's we have a big trouble. We will learn soon that the Nitro facilities was closed at the latest in the first week of July. It is what arises from the two Gazette Charleston's articles (see the first article and the second) and from the New York Time and one's of a Syracuse newspaper. First Mark Hunt just wanted that Boisselier tests the viability of the ADN sample to see if it could be used in a clone - and not to directely make a clone of his dead child-. The inspection of the FDA had taken place with the current of spring 2001. Following this one Mark Hunt said to FDA that no cloning process will takes place in said the facilities and it is only when it noted that Brigitte Boisselier continued to affirm to the media network exactly the opposite that it decided to carry out the closing of the laboratory.

Given in the good timeline , these quotations make it possible to advance that the Laboratory of Nitro wad probably closed since the beginning July 2001 - if it does not know about June - do not forget either that at the time of it's searching of June the FDA will seized some of evidence relating to clonaid activities. And consequently this element - the disappearance of the laboratory of Nitro closed by it's owner - was not reported on the Web site of Clonaid nearly one month after its closing and it is only in October 2001 that any mention in Mark Hunt - the investor - will disappear from the site whereas this one has been withdrawn from the project for several months....

However on Internet and more specifically on the newsgroups attended by the raelain and their detractors - of which I am:) - a called XXXX XXXX acting under an "also Know as "of loan female identitie claimed that it had made a virtual visit of the laboratory - of which everyone then was unaware of that it had been closed (Hunt Mark was to thereafter resell the entirety of the material of the laboratory) in order to better stigmatize my "skepticism" on the reality of the company - I had expressed my doubts about the materiality of Clonaid during June 2001. According the dates of the "Raelian's seminar" on summer - second week of July - the visit was indeed a virtual one , but Clonaid staff could not be unaware of the fact that laboratory of Nitro was not any more from out of the cloning world. I will insist finally on the fact that for whoever the site of clonaid consults, the fact that the entirety of the material was resold - what supposes that Hunt was the owner - is also carefully overlooked:

In summer 2000 Brigitte Boisselier, Ph.D. was contacted by an American couple wanting to help CLONAIDMC to develop the technique of cloning so qu?ils can have a child thanks to this new technology. They were the first large investors and thanks to their assistance the technical apparatuses as well as the laboratory was financed.

The first laboratory of CLONAIDMC was installed in spring 2001. After several visits of American governmental representatives in summer 2001 CLONAIDMC decided to continue its projects of human cloning in another country or that is 100% legal.

Let us admire the textual "retraction" and the vanishing of the Nitro Lab... A reader could believe that the first laboratory still exists. Just like it would be turned to to think that Brigitte Boisselier remained in good standing with the Hunt and that only the intervention of the American administration explains the "displacement" of a virtual laboratory . As regards the Hunt's opinion about the work of B.Boisselier - of which he affirmed at he had financed it to a total value of 5000 USS/mois:

"Between you and me, that's the reason I let them go. Because they weren't doing anything. They weren't working. What I wanted them to do was look at the DNA of my son Andrew, to see if it was viable or not. They weren't doing it."

It is difficult to be more negative about his consideration to Boisselier :

Hunt, a former legislator, said he lost confidence in Dr. Brigitte Boisselier recently because she became "a press hog," giving many international news interviews on behalf of the cloning project, and on behalf of the Raelian religion.

And in his last declarations which are allowed to him he complains to have been cynically deceived. In his first statement Mark Hunt claim ha ve lost from a total amount of 450.000 to 500.000 US $ but of new figures circulate - 9000 US $/mois of wages for B.Boisselier and 1 million $ for all the money lost in this disaster joke.

But now, what the raelian have to said about Clonaid

On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 21:32:03 +0100, www.rael-science.fr wrote:

Raelians do not have any legal, financial or different bond with the Clonaid Company. The Clonaid company is a completely independent company, the memeber of its Council are individuals who decided to undertake an occupation with whole share, like all one each one.

:) Because the team of scientists "SIC" - let us turn our memory the the image of a Damien Marsic trying to extract cow ovules from a dead ovary found at the slaughter-house - ans all raelians are also the members of the Board of directors :)) and these members of the board would have decided to undertake a "occupation": Is like to say that it them are employed of the company which they are supposed to direct because the members of board - are supposed to be the representative of the "majority shareholders" - the investors - in the capital of a company... Or by this press release the raelians which are not clever explain us without laughing the investors "the pigeons" do not have any control on the company in which they are supposed to invests...

Brigitte Boisselier when she was in relation to Mark Hunt was paid by him: between 5000 $ and 9000 $/month and not, by the company - the one that is supposed to have replaced "Vailant Venture" - dissolved at the time or the Hunt couple go in the stage-. When the Laboratory closed it's doors - the raelian then claimed that it was delocalized elsewhere -, only small problem here, Mark Hunt as an owner of the furniture resold the entirety of the equipment. This is means that the company Clonaid ™ was not even owner of its own equipment, not more than it did not finance the hiring of the classroom of Nitro, not more than it did not pay the wages of its own employees. Which is thus this company which is supposed to exist but which does not fill any the functions for which one creates a company ?

If Raël, founder of the Raëlien Movement, appears at the sides of Brigitte Boisselier, to personally support it in its company, it does it on a purely individual basis, without engaging in any way the Movement.

And the happy members of the board they are not members of the structure ? Brigitte Boisselier Guides Bishop Marcus W... all members of the structure and that would not engage the raelian movement ! -. IMHO if Clonaid is a legal fiction of the same type as the one used in the case of Vailant Venture: A perfectly empty shell but whose envelope is 100% raelian. As for the bonds they are not simply philosophical but physical: The Web site of Clonaid is localised on the same place.

See the registrant and the traceroute:

Clonaid.com

Rael.org

Now will the raelian international movement will claim that Marc Lavoie raëlien is the owner of the Rael.org web site ? whereas it is in the name of the movement that it acquired the domain name... and it goes from there in the same way for clonaid.com. As for the physical and financial bonds it is well rael.org which lodges clonaid.com and this since 1997. Recently ( 5 march 2003), probably to try to dismiss this argument the domain name owner have been transfered to B.Boisselier. By the way the web site remain located on the same place.

[....]

Let us summarize the Raël exploit , lie by omission and handle information: Thus to escape all legal implications - while at the same time it had acknowledged that Vailant Venture was only one empty shell which sold since 1997 services or the products with trade mark but however completely imaginary: "a blow of pub" according to Raël - a swindle (or attempt) according to the law - dissolved by claim of an "imaginary intervention of french television". Let me empathize the fact that we have no element which allow us today to think that the clonaid company is actually less virtual than the Nitro Lab. And Thomas Kaenzig in his speech on 2003 Money World event refused to gave any factual evidence wich could demonstrate the reality of his claim about his company. For example he refused to disclose the name of his investors, the country were the company is registered - he just said tha's it was note in United State - and just said that's the company minimal sharing part was of 25.000 US $.

The easy way here are that the customers are actually the investors like Hunt. I suppose that the isrealian millionary - suffering from a terminal disease - must obey to the same kind of modus operandi.

And finally all that little clonaid people claimed that nobody have even paid for a service that their sold over the internet since 1997....

And for the clonaid annoucement of the 27 of December just ask you some common sense question - see the following anwer posted on usenet

The Clonaid annouciation...

[snip]

Aren't the ovaries supposed to have an finite numbers from the very start?... If my memorie is right ,women do not produce ovules during their life with as the testicles does...

Completely and here it is supposed to extract more than half of her ovarian capital .. And I never heard that such a thing was ever carried out in a human being. And I see no specialized doctor who could even could accept to practise it.

As information here the most relevant piece of the press realease of Boisselier (see the ongoing transcription here) :

Through various answers to the journalists you will have confirmation of the following points:

- Only the ovules of the mother were used
- the taking away of the ovules was carried out between January and Mars
- More than 300 ovules were used.

The question: How extacting more than 300 ovules on the same person in less than three months...?

"" the scientists" "of Clonaid according to Brigitte Boisselier really did not work on the cloning of human embryos before january of this year. It results from it that Mrs Boisselier lied when she claimed to have preceded Advanced Cell Technology in the production of human embryos clones at the stage of the blastocyte.

This noty lie is confirmed by different claim according to which it is only as from March that the technic about human egg have been finalized - How could it develop cloned embryos at the stage of the blastocyte if they did'nt handle the technic ?. And that more especially as she claim that during the time of the ghost laboratory his team worked only on the cloning of embryos of cows. Considering the case of the other clones and knowing that there are 50 Raël angel's are involved in the project. It is not less than 45 ovules/anges which would have being extracted over the same time period. And that if I does not even take counts the thousands of supposed tests of them to be realized before the prohibited experiment. Mrs Boisselier made same's claim's in his interview with Maisoneuve on Radio Canada.

However before even putting the question about the "offre de preuve" nobody thought at that time of the press realease to check what implied its declarations nor to even confront them with its preceding press releases...

So Why ? Raël speak...

source Contact n°183 4/01/2003

Intoxicating the Media...

If one does not have any tangible evidence at this days of the least birth of a clone child, the media intoxication it is all that there is of more palpable and it even continues more and more. Thus the raelian succeeded in obtaining articles in the American magazine Time. The good news was immediately reflected in Raël Science: Who Are the Raelians ? It is a particularly tasty passage -

...Marsic says he knows little of Clonaid, except that it was founded by Rael. He says he does not know the names of any investors or how the organization is funded. He believes that Raelian dues pay no salaries within the movement or in the company, but, instead, go toward advertising speakers on the Raelian movement or for operating educational booths, like the one open recently at a holistic expo in Atlanta. He says dues begin at $150 per Raelian annually, although members can pay more if they wish.

Marsic sees Clonaid’s announcement that a baby has been successfully cloned as "a great thing. It’s important in the symbolic point of view....

But our old friend Damien Marsic was quoted in the rocket scientist team of of Clonaid:)

But he does'nt no anything or so few.......

Here anoter post on french newsgroup frsoc.sectes

We can speculate, as XXXX XXXX invite us, over a strict raelian composition - so a free one - of Clonaid

[1] Hortence Dodo - biologie moléculaire Department of Food & Animal Sciences, Universite d'Alabama (UAH)
[2] Damien Marsic - thèse en exobiologie Laboratory for Structural Biology, Universite d'Alabama (UAH)
[3] Felix Clairvoyant - Génétique Moléculaire & microbiologie Linus Pauling Institute
[4] Marc Rivard - Docteur, Multipraticien & Urgentologue Québec

We can go beyond the speculation. Because clonaid left traces.

Numbers 2: Damien Marsic and the numbers 4 Marc Rivard were quoted in the scientific team of Clonaid. Which it is necessary to add: Marcus Wenner Consulting, PhD. (presented also as Neurobiologist (to the 01/04/2001). Marcus Wener was a long time in charge of raelian movement in Japan.

Like : Mehran Sam
M.S., Ph.D.
Research Fellow: Harvard University
Research Expertise: Embryonic Stem Cells and Developmental Biology

And B.Boisselier :

1 B.Boisselier (Chimistry)
2 Marcus Wenner (Foreword of "oui au clonage humain")
3 Mehran Sam (PHd bioéthic & neurobiology"
4 Damien M. (Postgrad in Exobiology )
5 Marc Rivard

They are the names quoted on the site of clonaid.com until the 7/05/2001

Is thus the dream team of the Laboratory of Nitro of which it is useless to point out the exploits in detail here. For more references:

http://sundaygazettemail.com/news/News/200108051/
http://www.wvgazette.com/news/News/200108079/
http://minilien.com/?SuLLi1ogth
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/01/national/01CLON.html

For Mehran Sam :

on en retrouve la trace ici :

"I stressed the need for public education regarding powers of attorney for personal care. This concern has not been addressed by the amendments. *A recent research study conducted by myself and Mehran Sam, a graduate student at the Centre for Bioethics*, showed that of 105 outpatients attending an internal medicine clinic 16% knew about living wills, 11% knew about durable powers of attorney for health care and 4% knew about advance directives. Their knowledge of these terms is extremely limited, and would be more limited regarding the term "powers of attorney for personal care," which is even newer than these other ones."

the Myself is: Peter A. Singer. he conduct his phd study :

It obvious that the phd is not MD one (absence of the mention Medical Doctor- term. To confusing the audience a following of the mention of the PHD on a lower line of the reference to Havard look nice - for an untrained observer ... - On a research cross Mehram Sam + Havard:

• http://digilander.libero.it/linguaggiodelcorpo/odori3/
• http://icg.harvard.edu/~mcb141/articles/olfaction/sam_et_al.pdf
  

Email quoted from the neuropharmacology article "Odorant may arise instinctive Behaviour"

Howard Hughes Medical Institute, Department of
Neurobiology, Harvard Medical School, Boston,
Massachusetts 02115, USA
e-mail: lbuck@hms.harvard.edu

The domain name matched wich one used by MehramSam when he proselitizing toward muslim world as a realian.

http://www.rumormillnews.net/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=4525

it matched with the neurobiology department of the Harvard medical school.

http://neuro.med.harvard.edu/. voila une adresse de contact neurobiology@hms.harvard.edu

Aresh Izadi
Assistant Responsible for the Muslim Communities Worldwide
Email: aresh@sympatico.ca

Mehran Sam, PhD
Responsible for Iran
:Email: msam@hms.harvard.edu

The post states, that not only is Allah an extraterrestrial, BUT that Rael is Allah's messenger.

On the publication - only and single one which one it is the minium of what we can wait from a phd in post grad of ... But it is far away to be sufficient to make him a specialist in human cloaning. For Marc Rivard is a MD but specialist in emergency medicine members in the "advisory Council "in the" Institute XXXXXXXX ".

"École de massothérapie, l'Institut Kiné-Conceptest l'une des plus grandes en son genre en Amérique."

The institute is located at

760, rue SXXXXXXXX
Montréal, Québec
H2S 1M5
(514) 272-XXXX (272-XXXXX)

A knowledge or an experience of emergency gave him certainly some competence in emmergency medecine but not in cloning field by the way the "massothrapie" is a medical speciality which is unknown in France. And which does not seem to cover Kinesitherapy...

However one could make the same analysis with Damien marsic or Marcus Weener. Which Damien Marsic does not hesitate to lie when it declares "knowledge very little of thing on Clonaid" whereas it was one of Clonaid laboratory .

In fact none of those Clonaid "scientists" have the background to handle in less than three months human cloning technic.

So everybody will uderstand why theireidentities must remain secret.

Of course Mrs Boissellier continues playing Poker with the media. It is what comes out from its last press release given in Toronto. Let us note that Mrs Boisselier filtered), the French-speaking press and radio Canada having had misfortune to be to critical, are now in his blacklist. Miracle outing of the calendar, the last cloned baby born on January 22 is the very same day where took place, an audience in Florida court that Mrs Boisselier unfortunately miss …. Thomas Kaenzig who was subpoenaed, in spite of his lawyers efforts to withdraw it was forced to answer the judge question (by telephone). Still it would be necessary, to be completely exact rather to speak about non-responses in what relates to it, since throughout its hearing he always refused to answer to most of them. However the Clonaid PR grasped this opportunity to launch the good news hoping that the media without delay were going once more sharing the hoax. Were those shown too circumspect? We can think it because it was necessary that Mrs Boisselier pays with her person to obtain some echo.

During his press conference, she promised evidences - why she just not wait to have evidences before his announcement? - Intending to show that the last child who would have been born in Japan would be indeed a clone. With soon picture of the curiosity on the Clonaid web site and as well one’s of the laboratory. As usual she refused, to release the identity of the independent expert while evoking two sample’s series. An astonishing story: Clonaid and the parents would have carried out each, sampling from the dead children. This stories would let us suppose that the parents would have made their cloning decision a few hours after the child death and they have been able to have a contact with Clonaid and to reach an agreement about the method and the whole “affaire” in approximately 72 hours, indeed such a sample must be carried out within 24 hour (according a Forensic). Why not to try a scenario less "credible"? Remember that those parent’s are supposed to have been choose in a more or less randomized way from a list. Knowing in addition that the cloning is prohibited Japan, so it will be an investigation and there are all the chances so that we attend a “soap opera” once more time on legal issue… By the way the test opacity which surrounds the so called demonstration is sufficient to scientific community to rejected it.

So what they think about it...

In front of the large media circus caused by the Affaire Clonaid I seized this as an opportunity to contact some scientific personalities in order to share with us informations on this page. Among them the professor Lee M. Silver, from university of Princeton. This exchange is interesting because L.M. Silver thought until a recent date - the reading of this Web page - that Mrs Boisselier was able to realize what she claimed.

Next section Cloning Lying & Video

Xavier Martin-Dupont : xmd@zelohim.org
Identifiant skype : zelohim -tel : + 33 870 449 764 Mobile : 06 29 35 75 04